Vegans and Cancer: China Study 2

When I was a surgical resident there was a 36 year old man who had horrible colon cancer, that would, in a few months, kill him.  After getting over the shock of having colon cancer, and that it was particularly aggressive, he asked me, “Doc, how come I got this.  I’ve been a vegan since I was 14 years old.” Somewhere he, as many Vegans, was under the assumption that a plant based life would protect him from cancer.

In my early days in surgical practice we had several members of the 7th Day Adventist Church who were patients of mine- all with various forms of cancer. Unlike some of my vegan patients, they did not have the belief that their vegetarian lifestyle would keep them from developing cancer, but seemed to accept it as a disease of people who live long enough to get past the diseases of childhood.

Because of my well known interest in nutrition and lifestyle my practice became a favorite of vegans and vegetarians.  A number of vegans and vegetarians would ask to be referred to me, convinced that their physician was wrong with their diagnosis of cancer.

In The China Study T. Collin Campbell makes the assertion that cancer can be cured by a vegetarian diet – that if only people would get away from meats cancer could be gone.

To quote: “ Furthermore, a pattern was beginning to emerge: nutrients from animal-based foods increased tumor development while nutrients from plant-based foods decreased tumor development.  ” Campbell opines “There is enough evidence now that the U.S. government should be discussing the idea that the toxicity of our diet is the single biggest cause of cancer.

That phrase resonates with a lot of people, because we want there to be a single factor – something simple we can wrap our simplistic brains around.  Most pseudoscience relies on people wanting simple answers that don’t involve complex pathways. In fact, most pseudoscience and most charlatans rely on people being simple minded and not critical thought. In this case, Campbell, who is well trained, went global from rats to humans, from high doses of one milk protein to all animal proteins. We want scientists to think globally, but when we venture into fields not our own, we need to learn about those fields – in this case, Campbell is not a physician, but a physiologist who wants to relate rats to humans.

Campbell continues, “There is enough evidence now that local breast cancer alliances, and prostate and colon cancer institutions, should be discussing the possibility of providing information to Americans everywhere on how a whole foods, plant-based diet may be an incredibly effective anti-cancer medicine.

In the book Campbell relates how he tried to talk a woman out of getting a mastectomy to prevent breast cancer. The  woman has the gene for breast cancer, which is a high likelihood that she, like her mother, sister, and aunts, would develop breast cancer.  Campbell, who told her he was not a physician, was pressing his case that if she would change her diet, she would be protected against having cancer. well, lets quote him:

“I told her a little bit about the China Study and about the important role of nutrition. I told her that just because a person has the gene for a disease does not mean that they are destined to get the cancer: prominent studies reported that only a tiny minority of cancers can be solely blamed on genes. I was surprised at how little she knew about nutrition. She thought genetics was the only factor that determined risk. She didn’t realize that food was an important factor in breast cancer as well. We talked for twenty or thirty minutes, a brief time for such an important matter. By the end of the conversation I had the feeling that she was not satisfied with what I told her. Perhaps it was my conservative, scientific way of talking, or my reluctance to give her a recommendation. Maybe, I thought, she had already made up her mind to do the procedure.” He regretted that he was not more forceful, “When I think back to that conversation I had with Betty, I now feel that I could have made a stronger statement about the role nutrition plays in breast cancer. I still would not have been able to give her clinical advice, but the information I now know might have been of more use to her. So what would I tell her now?”

Here is what The China Study Statistics really look like: when you compare the villages that consume the most meat- there is a negative correlation – meaning, the more meat, the less disease.  The highest risk for colon cancer in the China study was with a parasite infection called shistosomiasis – a known factor for colon and rectal cancer.  Once you remove that parasite from the equation, meat is no longer an association in the China Study – at all.  There is a lovely, very detailed analysis of this, with more statistics, here.

The China Study is touted to be a comprehensive study of why people in China have less heart disease and cancer than in other countries.  They went to rural villages, taking the death statistics from a decade before.  They collected blood samples from everyone- put them together and ran the chemistry profile.

The problems with that analysis are several: First, it is a population study asking people what they ate: while these are traditional villages, and what they eat is traditional- at least that is the premise – these studies are always inaccurate.  Second, the death certificates for these villages are inaccurate. Even today Chinese physicians studying heart disease will note that the rate of heart disease isn’t known in many villages because when people died they didn’t always list that it was from heart disease. The villages did not do an autopsy, so unless it was an obvious cancer, there was no way of knowing if the person wasted away from an infection, or from an underlying cancer. Pooling the blood to get a “cholesterol” reading – means that some people could have high cholesterol, and others low– and since we know today that dietary cholesterol does not effect blood cholesterol the premise of that sampling was in error.

Today most scientists look at the China Study as cute for the time- but inaccurate, flawed, and outdated.  The statistics, when taken apart by others, find conclusions different than those reported.

Back to Vegans and Cancer.

Steve Jobs, a lifelong vegetarian, delayed surgery because he thought “alternative” therapies might work.

That a vegan diet could prevent cancer is bunk. One need look no further than Steve Jobs, co-founder of Apple Computer, who lived a vegetarian diet his life, and died of cancer.  Sadly, Jobs didn’t get the surgery his doctors recommended for over a year. When his surgeons operated on him they found that the tumor had spread. Jobs used that year trying out the alternative therapy of “boosting” his immune system using any combination of vegetables and fruits.

Other more famous vegans and vegetarians who have died of cancer or heart disease include:

Linda McCartney – Paul McCartney’s first wife, died of breast cancer.

Robin Gibb – of the Bee Gees, died of stomach cancer

Adam Yauch, Beastie Boys, died of cancer

Harvey Milstein, proponent of the raw food hygiene movement died of colon cancer

George Harrison, Beatle, died of lung cancer

Eva Ekvall, Miss Venezuela, died of breast cancer age 29

Vihara Youkta, dancer and wife of famous raw foodist Viktoras Kulvinskas, died of cancer.

As much as we would wish that a single diet would prevent cancer, it doesn’t. It is irresponsible to say that it would. I wish there was a single answer- but that simplistic, even magical thinking, doesn’t work. For Campbell to assert that a vegan diet could even turn off cancer in the face of some other carcinogenic agent, based on his studies with rats- is absurd.

Until then, The China Study remains a work of pure fiction and a source of “false superiority” for those who wish to believe a lie.

Here is the science behind a bit of it:

Cancer is a complicated topic, and not all cancers work the same – but lets take breast cancer as an example.  The two genes that are identified with breast cancer are BRCA1 and BRCA2, which  stand for breast cancer susceptibility gene 1 and breast cancer susceptibility gene 2, respectively.

BRCA1 and BRCA2 belong to a class of genes known as tumor suppressors. In normal cells, BRCA1 and BRCA2  help prevent uncontrolled cell growth. Mutation of these genes means that cell growth is less suppressed. Think of the genes as brakes, that keep the cell from multiplying too much and too fast, these slow it down. Remove the brakes and the cells divide rapidly, and without control. Women who have this mutation in their genetic material have a 60% chance of developing breast cancer, as opposed to women in general that have a 12% chance. The theory that Campbell proposed was that a vegan diet would somehow suppress the lack of suppressing gene. In spite of years of looking, and many papers stating that some fruits and vegetables would diminish this- it has not ever been shown to be true. One would think, given the conviction of Campbell’s book, that there would be a clear difference between vegans and meat eaters with this population. Sadly, the answer is more complicated than diet.

 

Campbell, T. Colin; Thomas M. Campbell II (2006-06-01). The China Study: The Most Comprehensive Study of Nutrition Ever Conducted And the Startling Implications for Diet, We (p. 182). Perseus Books Group. Kindle Edition.

 

Dr. Terry Simpson About Dr. Terry Simpson
Dr. Terry Simpson received his undergraduate and graduate degrees from the University of Chicago where he spent several years in the Kovler Viral Oncology laboratories doing genetic engineering. He found he liked people more than petri dishes, and went to medical school. Dr. Simpson, a weight loss surgeon is an advocate of culinary medicine. The first surgeon to become certified in Culinary Medicine, he believes teaching people to improve their health through their food and in their kitchen. On the other side of the world, he has been a leading advocate of changing health care to make it more "relationship based," and his efforts awarded his team the Malcolm Baldrige award for healthcare in 2011 for the NUKA system of care in Alaska and in 2013 Dr Simpson won the National Indian Health Board Area Impact Award. A frequent contributor to media outlets discussing health related topics and advances in medicine, he is also a proud dad, husband, author, cook, and surgeon “in that order.” For media inquiries, please visit www.terrysimpson.com.

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Latest Comments

  1. Lynn says:

    While the estimated rate of BRCA 1 and 2 mutation in the Jewish population is between 5% and 10%, the rate of cancer in those individuals is about 80%. Apparently the mutation is also present in other ethnic groups and if there is a strong family history, a genetic mutation is probably the cause. Most insurance companies will pay for the test, which is about $3400, if a biologically Jewish woman develops breast cancer. That is because she will not benefit long term from a lumpectomy.
    In some Jewish communities where women want to have children later in life and nurse them, there are doctors willing to do watchful waiting until the childbearing period is over. No doctor would be irresponsible enough to say that a food could correct the mutation or irresponsible enough to blame any specific food if a woman was found to have cancer.
    I recently read that book by AJ Jacobs called Drop Dead Healthy. He writes of his raw food, vegan, toxin free aunt that died of leukemia at 63.

  2. Cindy says:

    What you say about the China study may be true, and I agree..there are no simple answers.. but being vegetarian & vegan does not necessarily mean that one avoids toxic & overrocessed foods. A raw foidist, theoretically should. ..but his wife?? While there are many other factors that lead to cancer, diet in my opinion is prime and/or the orime preventative for other toxic insults to the body.. Writing an article that implies it doesn’t matter what you eat is misleading & dangerous..

  3. thedoc says:

    I never said it doesn’t matter what one eats. You don’t read my blog – but, here is my catchphrase “food can kill you, it probably can’t cure you.” And the wife was a raw foodist for 32 years. So- until you have some evidence about what diet leads to cancer, with good proof – right now we don’t have one. I believe in eating great food- but, thats me.

  4. thedoc says:

    We would love to find the magic food, or the magic diet – but it does not exist. We do know that some foods are worse than others- but most of those are not in the typical civilized diet.
    In terms of breast cancer – many of us would not want to “watch and wait,” that doesn’t seem to work well with breast cancer- at least we don’t think it does. Who knows- it does work with some prostate cancer.
    When you say no doctor would be irresponsible enough… – I suggest there are a number of them out there who say that, preach that, teach that, and yet – as with all – we live four score and ten (plus or minus a bit)

  5. Lynn says:

    what I meant by watchful waiting with breast cancer is that women who have the mutation for BRCA 1 or 2 can opt for prophylactic surgery, which is the current recommendation, before the onset of menopause, or they can have frequent exams if they don’t want to have both ovaries and breasts removed at age 35 and 40. There is no watchful waiting if cancer is found; it is always recommended to remove it. I was told that a BRCA 1 or 2 mutation positive woman could opt for watchful waiting after a lumpectomy but that would not be the preferred choice because those women with the mutation can have more aggressive cancers. When a mother is found to have the cancer and the mutation, the children are then tested for the mutation. Men must be checked for breast cancer if they carry the mutation and the female children with the mutation must grow up knowing that they will lose their breasts and ovaries at an early age. Some doctors will examine them at frequent intervals if they want to delay the prophylactic surgery.

  6. Lynn says:

    Also, I just read that if kids eat hot dogs, they have a higher risk of leukemia. My husbands little brother (may he rest in peace) was a hot dog lover and died at age 12 of leukemia. My daughter is worried because her little boy loves hot dogs. Also, I read that cold cuts can cause pancreatic cancer which to my knowledge, is worse than breast cancer. Are hot dogs and cold cuts that dangerous? Also, we like to cook outside on the grill. Is that a health problem.

  7. Lynn says:

    I read the articles but did not find anything specifically related to hot dogs and cold cuts but there was a nice picture of a steak on the grill. Kosher steak is majorly expensive but every now and then…
    My concern was a recent warning to parents about a supposed correlation between hot dog consumption of 12 or more per month in children and leukemia.
    Also, there are articles out there that state that breast cancer has become a big deal in third world countries because they don’t have anything to offer in the way of treatment besides mastectomies and the women won’t undergo that surgery. The theory as to why these women are experiencing more breast cancer is that these countries are becoming more urbanized and western food is making inroads. Western food is usually thought of as burgers and fries.

  8. Marie P. Watson says:

    I was with you until I came to the reference of Denise Minger. I prefer to get my information from people with training and education, not from “Internet celebrities”.

  9. B. Londe says:

    There is no science in that article. It also does not include the fact that George Harrison was a heavy smoker and Adam Yauch of the Beastie Boys did not die of stomach cancer but of salivary gland cancer. He became a vegan after his diagnosis.

  10. thedoc says:

    Well I am someone of training – I happen to like her analysis and did my own independent analysis with a rather large book of detail – but since this is a vblog not for academic, I thought she was just fine. Do not lose the message to an appeal to authority

  11. thedoc says:

    Well i did not say that Adam Yauch died of stomach cancer – where you got that I have no idea. And he was a vegan long before. In terms of science- this is an analysis- if you wish to read articles about the transcription and translation of the proteins and how they are not affected by vegetable proteins more than animal proteins, we could certainly supply those- but somehow I doubt that facts are an issue with you- since you jump to assumptions

  12. thedoc says:

    Processed meat article was previously posted- it was not good science and does not relate to meats as we process them in this country. The theory is not that women are getting more breast cancer- but that we diagnose breast cancer at a stage that it is probably not going to manifest itself for years. That is- if men live long enough we will get prostate cancer, and if women live long enough they will get breast cancer. Somethings gonna get us

  13. Lynn says:

    Currently the statistic for American women, is approx 12% of women who live to be 85 will be diagnosed with breast cancer. Many of those cancers will be slow growing, non-aggressive, or will be diagnosed at an advanced age where other illnesses will kill the person first. In the US there are about 250,000 diagnosis per year, some of which are in women who had the disease previously, and there are approx 40,000 deaths a year from the disease. Women who find lumps in the US usually get them biopsied and treated. In third world countries, they usually ignore their lumps and therefore have a 53% death rate from breast cancer. No one is doing diagnostic screenings on them so it is not that they find cancers that are not clinically significant. Apparently children being orphaned due to mothers with malignant breast lumps is becoming a bigger issue there.

  14. Lynn says:

    I would say, from my own experience, that it is normal to question why the cancer occurred. The problem is; there usually are no answers. My father died of kidney cancer which was not diagnosed until he was 80 and then he went fast. This type of kidney cancer was correlated to people which were exposed to certain industrial chemicals and he did indeed fit that picture. We might guess that the cancer was caused by his exposure during the years that he drove around with aluminum siding samples in his car since the coating on siding has a strong chemical smell. He was still working at age 80 but the body no longer fights cancer as well at that age.
    My brother-in-law was a late life baby who died at age 12 from leukemia. There were studies that correlated late maternal age with leukemia and other studies that suggested that hot dog eating played a role and he has been gone for 33 years. Again, there are only guesses and no proof that anything that anyone did wrong caused his illness.
    Breast cancer has been linked with lots of things and some of those things might have had nothing to do with it. Lately there have been studies connecting breast cancer with having large birth weight babies and others that suggest that too much sugar or carbs in the diet feed tumors. Still, no matter how long women live, 88% don’t develop breast cancer so estimating risk based on the age of menarche, menopause, or first pregnancy may also mean nothing. The only real proof of cause is genetic mutation and strong family history. I was also told that the dense breast tissue is possibly also an inherited trait and that Jewish women seem to have that trait, even in the absence of genetic mutation.

  15. thedoc says:

    The BRCA gene also increases risks of other cancers.
    No doubt toxins can lead to the carcinogenesis either by promotion or induction – but we are fixated with food as that source, and it simply has not played out that way.
    When you say that 88% don’t develop breast cancer- what you are saying is that 88% don’t die of breast cancer. Much like prostate cancer- when we look for it in elderly men, we find it- when we look for breast cancer in elderly women, we find it.
    But – we like to be simple in our world- we want food to be the problem and the answer – and so often it simply is not

  16. Lynn says:

    Every statistic that I read said that the 12% (one in 8) women that will be diagnosed in their lifetime if they live to be 85. I never saw statistics anywhere that indicated that breast cancer was simply a part of the female aging process. Is this new information? I remember that my husband’s grandmother had to undergo a lumpectomy for a cancer at a very advanced age. Is that even necessary? I would think that at that age DCIS could be safely ignored as well.
    BRCA apparently causes males to develop colon, prostate, breast and pancreatic cancers. It may also be that colon and pancreatic cancers are more likely in women also with the mutation but my friends with the mutation were mainly cautioned about their breasts and ovaries and most of the opted for the recommended prophylactic surgery. This causes fights in some families when someone either won’t submit to the test when it is identified in their family, or they test positive for the mutation but won’t have the surgery.
    Supposedly women who drink large amounts of alcohol are at greater risk of breast cancer as are overweight women but again, these may be worthless correlations. Personally I think that it is dangerous to suggest that women who give birth at a young age, have numerous pregnancies, and who breast feed, are at less of a risk than women who don’t. Pregnant women and nursing mothers also develop breast cancer as do mothers of large families.

  17. An opposing viewpoint.... - Talk of The Villages
    [...] An opposing viewpoint.... well, sort of, to the premise that plant based diets may lower the incidence of cancer and possibly vascular disease. Dr. Terry Simpson is bariatric surgeon from Arizona. I've linked to his website....browse around, get another perspective on how food impacts our lives and how excess food can impact an individual. I found it an interesting read. Hope you do also. Vegans and Cancer:A Diet of Plants Wont Prevent or Cure Cancer | Your Doctor's Orders [...]

  18. Lynn says:

    Apparently there was a study done on autopsies of elderly women who died of causes other than breast cancer and 40% had some degree of breast cancer. In most older women, these cancers do not spread or harm health in any way, however, the national yearly death rate of almost 40,000 Americans (mostly women) who die of breast cancer does include about 15% who are elderly. The average woman who dies of breast cancer is in her 60’s. For some reason also, breast cancers in men are usually aggressive as well as they are in pregnant women. Women used to die in childbirth and now that most women survive childbirth means that they live long enough to develop breast cancer which is the most commonly diagnosed cancer in American women. Breast cancer was recognized during the time that Hippocrates lived and I doubt that most people ate fast food in those days so that particular disease has other origins. Now I have recently read that there is a theory that multivitamin use may up the risk of dense breast tissue which may in turn up the risk of breast cancer.
    Apparently untreated breast cancer has a high mortality rate.

  19. David says:

    Dr. Simpson, did you write this article? If so, you should be ashamed of yourself. This is the most specious piece of writing I’ve read about vegetarianism. It is stunningly dishonest and slipshod in its reasoning.

    Let me quote your dishonesty right off:

    “In The China Study T. Collin Campbell makes the assertion that cancer can be cured by a vegetarian diet – that if only people would get away from meats cancer could be gone.

    To quote: ‘Furthermore, a pattern was beginning to emerge: nutrients from animal-based foods increased tumor development while nutrients from plant-based foods decreased tumor development. ” Campbell opines “There is enough evidence now that the U.S. government should be discussing the idea that the toxicity of our diet is the single biggest cause of cancer.'”

    There are two things that quotation from Campbell does not assert, completely contrary to your false assertion: One is that cancer can be cured by a vegetarian diet. The second is that if people could get away from eating meat cancer would be gone. Saying that “nutrients from animal based foods increased tumor development” does not say that vegetarian diets cure cancer, nor that not eating meat will either eliminate cancer or cure cancer (“would be gone,” which is not very scientifically clear).

    You say “That a vegan diet could prevent cancer is bunk. One need look no further than Steve Jobs, co-founder of Apple Computer, who lived a vegetarian diet his life, and died of cancer. Sadly, Jobs didn’t get the surgery his doctors recommended for over a year.” As a writer, you should know that you have an obligation to the facts. Jobs was not a lifelong vegetarian. Not only was he not a vegetarian as a youth, he also wasn’t a vegetarian throughout his adulthood. Not that this is crucial–no one says a vegan diet can prevent cancer regardless of all other possible causes of cancer. It is dishonest of you to say that anyone has made that claim.

    But more importantly, as a doctor, you should know something about the growth of cancer, even if you’re not an oncologist. You should know enough to know that the cancer Jobs had was decades old when he was diagnosed. This can be understood simply by knowing what the doubling rate is and knowing how his cancer progressed. You should also know enough to know that the surgery his doctor recommended did not have a chance of stopping the spread of Jobs’ cancer; it had already spread and was already in much of his body. And finally, you should be honest and consider how long Jobs did live with cancer: It is far more likely that his veganism extended his life than that it failed to cure him or prevent cancer, neither of which claims anyone makes.

    You say: “As much as we would wish that a single diet would prevent cancer, it doesn’t. It is irresponsible to say that it would. I wish there was a single answer- but that simplistic, even magical thinking, doesn’t work.” Your article is the simplistic, and dishonest, thinking. You attribute to Campbell a claim he has not made (and cannot quote him making the claim because he does not make it). Then you cite vegetarians who died of cancer. You’re setting up a strawman, and then pretending to knock it down with examples that are of wildly varying quality.

    “For Campbell to assert that a vegan diet could even turn off cancer in the face of some other carcinogenic agent, based on his studies with rats–is absurd.” He did not say that. And you did not address the meaning of what he did say, though you quoted some of it.

  20. thedoc says:

    First, regarding Jobs tumor you are wrong. The neuroendocrine tumor that Jobs suffered from is quite curable by surgery – and it was not spread when the first diagnosed him with an ERCP. Jobs waited, and he waited because he thought if he was “more pure” with his diet it would turn off the cancer. We surgeons do operate on these tumors and resect them so that the patients are cured from those tumors; and while surgery is not your field, the cure of Jobs tumor by surgery is well established in the literature. The doubling rate of cancer is not fixed, as you suggest.

    Campbell’s quotes are his- they are in the book. He makes the assertion. Now that you state that Jobs was simply not a pure vegetarian is supporting your view. Or that Jobs life was extended by being a vegan – which, when he became ill he underwent more chemotherapy that extended his life – as well as the liver transplant.

    There is no evidence that a vegetarian or vegan lifestyle prevents cancer, or prolongs the lives of those who suffer from it. Every effort to find such as been rebuffed. It would be great if it were the case, but alas- it is not.

  21. Josh Latham says:

    There are so many other reasons to not eat meat. The fact that it raises IGF-1 levels, which is now believed what helps feed cancer. (A note about Linda McCartney, she was a VEGETARIAN, not a vegan, she ate eggs.dairy and plenty of processed crap. She even owned a veggie burger company that added isolated soy protein to their burgers. Isolated soy protein raises IGF-1 levels worse than dairy. Same with Steve Jobs, he ate crap. He was not a whole foods vegan. Whole foods is key.) There is also the bacteria in meat to consider, that can’t even be cooked out, no matter how you cook it. This bacteria causes inflammation in the body. This is to name a few new discoveries.

    I’ve never heard anyone say that meat was beneficial to your health. Have they? B12 is the only vitamin we can’t get plenty of from a plant-based diet. So I’m going to take a B12 supplement and keep my clean, puss free, plant-based diet. If I’m wrong, doesn’t matter. A plant-based diet is just as good as one with meat and dairy. So why risk it? I happen to think meat and dairy is gross anyway.

    Just my two cents, but you’re probably not gonna post it anyway, so I’ve probably wasted my time.

  22. thedoc says:

    First, insulin growth factor 1 levels are a part of the normal body function, and without them you will suffer from dwarfism. They are important in many body functions. Too much of any growth factor can lead to some increase activity in some cancer cells. Just like estrogens. But that is only half of the story. While increased levels of IGF-1 are seen in some prostate cancer, it is mediated with increased levels of IGFBP’s or the binding proteins. Interesting- when prostate cancer patients made comprehensive changes, including changes to a vegan lifestyle, did not significantly alter IGF-1. Also- when you talk about Soy Protein, you have to also discuss the soy isoflavones that have demonstrated anti-proliferative and apoptotic effects both in vitro and in vivo.
    When you say that Steve Jobs “ate crap” – while I assume you do not mean literally- you should reference your discussion, and over what time periods and what he ate.
    Regarding bacteria in meat- there have been more outbreaks of food borne illness in the US from vegetables than from meat- and you can cook the bacteria out of the meat quite easily.

    Glad you enjoy a plant based diet- but alas, the studies are clear that vegans just don’t live as long as even vegetarians. But, I happen to like a whole plant diet- it is simplistic to say that this is the answer to all things- it isn’t, no matter how much we wish.

  23. Josh Latham says:

    ” Interesting- when prostate cancer patients made comprehensive changes, including changes to a vegan lifestyle, did not significantly alter IGF-1.”

    Can you reference the study you are speaking of here?

    “Regarding bacteria in meat- there have been more outbreaks of food borne illness in the US from vegetables than from meat”

    Almost all bacteria on fruits and vegetables can be sourced back to animal. Unfortunately they grow vegetables in cow and chicken dung. And according to a 2011 report from the Emerging Pathogens Institute, the five food poisoning sources that cause the greatest disease burden in the United States (in terms of cost, illnesses, hospitalizations, and death) are Campylobacter from poultry, Toxoplasma from pork, Listeria from deli meats, Salmonella from poultry, and then Listeria from dairy products. So you’re wrong about that.

    I’ve never said a plant-based diet was a silver bullet. But it is the best defense we have. Also Where you are getting that vegans don’t live as long as vegetarians I’m not sure and you give no reference to that statement. If the vegetarian diet rich in eggs and milk is so life extending, it sure didn’t help poor Linda McCartney.

  24. Josh Latham says:

    Also, the fact you trust Denise Minger’s assessment makes me question everything on this website. Her facebook states she’s a Puppeteer, not a scientist, doctor or anything and has no business picking apart studies.

  25. thedoc says:

    It appears you do, however, like to pick apart studies. Her analysis is quite good – so if you have a criticism of her work please use that as opposed to ad hominum attacks. By the way, I am a scientist and a physician – and I do like her work.

  26. Josh Latham says:

    Wrong, I do not pick apart studies. I am the average person wading through the mass of information, trying to make a personal decision about the best way to eat to prevent disease. It’s a tough job but I take it very seriously.

  27. thedoc says:

    So does Ms. Minger who appeared to do a great job going through a lot of data and performing statistical analysis of it.

  28. thedoc says:

    I will not only reference the study, but will do a bit abou tit later.
    The bacteria like E. coli were soil pathogens, and they do not grow vegetables in cow and chicken dung- fertilizer used today is not from cow dung. Toxoplasma is found in soil, but also found in meats, and therefore meats have to be cooked properly. Greens-based salads contaminated with Norovirus was the most
    common cause of outbreaks, followed by lettuce with Norovirus, sprouts with Salmonella, unspecified fruit with Norovirus, greens-based salads with Salmonella, melon with Salmonella, mushrooms with chemicals or toxins, greens-based salads with E. coli, lettuce with E. coli, and potatoes with Salmonella.
    In all produce outbreaks, Norovirus is the top cause of outbreaks 40%), followed by Salmonella (18%), E. coli (8%) and Clostridium (6%). The main hazards associated with fruits are Norovirus (39%), Salmonella(28%), and Cyclospora (8%). In vegetable outbreaks, the major pathogens are Norovirus (26%), Salmonella (21%), and Clostridium (12%). The
    major pathogens in produce dish outbreaks are Norovirus (51%), Salmonella (13%), E. coli (6%) and Shigella (6%).
    Linda McCartney didn’t die because she ate eggs or drank milk- she died of breast cancer. It may have been genetic, it may have been a random gene- and no lifestyle could have saved her.
    I have an article where those other references are cited.

  29. Lynn says:

    A study at Case Western Reserve University Hospital indicated that post-menopausal women with aggressive breast cancers, as evidenced by high Oncotype Dx scores, reported that they slept less hours per night than women whose cancers were less aggressive. There is also a correlation between working the night shift and breast cancer. The type of food eaten may not have as big of an effect on the development of breast cancer as the type of sleep that the woman gets. It would appear to me, that just as the menstrual cycle of young women can be offset by changes such as nervous tension, bad sleep habits or lengthy travel, an older woman could have her hormone levels affected by her nerves and habits as well. The body apparently still produces hormones after the ovaries no longer work.

  30. Josh Latham says:

    “The bacteria like E. coli were soil pathogens, and they do not grow vegetables in cow and chicken dung- fertilizer used today is not from cow dung. ”

    As far as I can gather, yes, both conventional and organic agriculture use manure, even human waste. To quote the organic trade association, “Both conventional and organic agriculture utilize manure as part of regular farm soil fertilization programs. Certified organic farmers, however, must have a farm plan detailing the methods used to build soil fertility including the application of manure or composted manure. Certified organic farmers are prohibited from using raw manure for at least 90 days before harvest of crops grown for human consumption.

    Furthermore, sewage sludge is not permitted in organic agriculture. The use of sewage sludge, also known as biosolids, which comes from treated municipal waste water and other sources, is one of the three processes completely banned in organic production. The other two other banned processes are the use of any genetically modified organisms and the use of irradiation. ”
    source: http://www.ota.com/organic/foodsafety/manure.html

    Also, I can find nothing stating that E. coli comes from soil. All sources say it comes from the intestines of humans and animals. If it is in the soil, it’s because the soil is contaminated with animal feces.

    I did find this, “Toxoplasma gondii can also be transmitted by handling contaminated animals, raw meat or having contact with food (e.g. raw or under cooked pork or beef), water, dirt (soil), or dust contaminated with cat feces.”

    Dirt, but it has to be contaminated with cat feces. So the source is feces, not the soil itself.

    Norovirus spread from food handlers not washing their hands properly and spreading their feces onto the leafy greens etc. Or the leafy greens were contaminated at their source, meaning the cow dung infested soil.
    source: http://www.cdc.gov/norovirus/php/illness-outbreaks.html

    I was also doing research on those vegans you listed who died from cancer, many of them ate high protein, high fat (lots of nuts and oils) raw diets. It doesn’t surprise me they got cancer if people like McDougall are correct, it stands to reason. It strengthens McDougall’s argument that a starch based, low fat diet is optimal.

    The rest like Adam Yauch and Robin Gibb, you can find very little info about the details of their vegan or vegetarian diet. So to comment on them would be complete speculation. There are a wide variety of vegan diets, not all of them healthy. So just cause someone says they’re vegan, doesn’t mean they eat right. I have vegan friends who are vegan for ethical reasons only, they can’t stand T. Colin Campbell or his ilk, they eat processed high fat food and they don’t care. Putting people in a vegan box and saying, look they died of cancer and they were vegan, it’s not very scientific and proves nothing.

  31. thedoc says:

    Ah yes, the organic farmers who use organic fertilizer- yes, the major disadvantage of organic fertilizer is pathogens, and how they handle it. They do not use raw cow dung in large commercially available farms- but somehow we lost the point here.
    E. Coli does live in soil, and when some people eat vegetables the E. Coli is not on the outside of the plant but goes into the plant.
    And, no it does not mean “cow dung infested soil.”
    Suffice to say- yes, food borne illness is an issue- with plants and with meats. You are not going to get away from it by being vegan.
    In terms of vegetarians or vegans dying of cancer- you remind me of the snake handler religions – if you get a snake bite and die then you didn’t have enough faith. If you get cancer as a vegan and die then you were not a vegan enough- sorry- just doesn’t work that way. Further, anecdotes do not prove science – it is wide spread studies of people, and oddly enough there is cancer found in India, there is cancer found in 7th Day Adventists, there is cancer found in China. And when you were doing “research” on the vegans, it is interesting how you know what they ate- since their food records are not readily available -.
    In terms of some of your other claims- clearly you like the likes of McDougall, whose rather long YouTube about Steve Jobs death was filled with too many inaccuracies to count- and he loves selling you his book. By the way- McDougall has recovered well from his stroke, eh?
    There will always be those who want the magic answer in food, and seek to gloss over the latest medical terms like “inflammation” or the latest group of peptides like Insulin Growth Factor, much like people in woo woo science try to throw in the term “quantum.” Nice terms- they actually have meaning and science behind them but McDougall has no idea

  32. thedoc says:

    Arch Microbiol. 2010 Mar;192(3):185-93.
    Environmental Escherichia coli occur as natural plant growth-promoting soil bacterium.
    Nautiyal CS, Rehman A, Chauhan PS.
    Source
    Division of Plant Microbe Interactions, National Botanical Research Institute, Rana Pratap Marg, Lucknow 226 001, India. csn@nbri.res.in
    Abstract
    Currently, it is presumed that Escherichia coli is not a normal inhabitant of the soil. Soilborne E. coli strains were isolated from broad range of 7 geoclimatic zones of India, indicating that E. coli can survive and thrive under different extreme soil conditions. Diversity among E. coli strains from widely separated geographic regions using enterobacterial repetitive intergenic consensus (ERIC)-PCR did not reveal any relationships between the genotypes and the source of isolation. Inoculation of maize (Zea mays cv. Arkil) seeds with E. coli NBRIAR3 (NBRIAR3) significantly enhanced (P < 0.05) plant growth and nutrient uptake, when compared with uninoculated control. Presence or absence of NBRIAR3 did not affect significantly (P < 0.05) diversity indexes, using substrate utilization patterns on the Biolog Eco plates. Clone libraries based on 16S rRNA gene from rhizosphere of maize plants demonstrated rather similar phylotype diversity from the uninoculated control and NBRIAR3-treated rhizosphere soil, which further indicated that NBRIAR3 did not exert a major influence on the overall bacterial diversity. The methodological approach described in this study supports the idea that E. coli should be treated as native soil bacterium instead of as an "indicator" of the possible presence of other fecal coliform bacteria. ELECTRONIC SUPPLEMENTARY MATERIAL: The online version of this article (doi:10.1007/s00203-010-0544-1) contains supplementary material, which is available to authorized users.

  33. Imran says:

    I had answered go your conmmets earlier bit I must have been do drugged up I messed up on sth and I can’t see they are posted. Anyway, just sought after to say thank you for your tips. Today was my surgery and I’m glad I followed your tips. It is very kind of you to post these videos as they truly help!Ps: you know this already but just sought after to say you look GREAT!

  34. Aaryan says:

    oh girlie! you’ll be fine!!! Im so glad I can help, shoot me any qosutiens you want and I will do my best to help! Remember to hydrate your body as much as you can and try to eat healthier just so that its simpler on the body Make sure your comfortable the day of the surgery and get lots of rest! Anything else I can help with you let me know 5 more days to go!!! yay

  35. thedoc says:

    Of course, he won the Nobel prize, and later became convinced that all tumors were caused by pollution, so he would only eat bread from wheat he grew, etc. Just like Linus Pauling, who won the Nobel Prize for chemistry then for Peace, he has become someone who people cite and use the logical fallacy of an “appeal to authority,” citing his 1931 Nobel prize.

  36. AJ says:

    One: A vegetarian diet will not reverse cancer as most vegetarians will eat dairy and casein is a carcinogen.
    Two: A vegan diet will reverse cancer IF the right foods are eaten. This means no processed foods; low sodium foods; and no refined sugars; no oils etc etc. So not just any vegan diet, but a “whole food” vegan or a vegan “Raw (organic) food” diet CAN reverse cancer.

    Too many people, people who have been told they will not live 6-12 months have gone to a strict whole-food vegan diet and have survived WITHOUT CHEMOTHERAPY. They reversed the cancer and are living perfect healthy lives today. This diet has reversed diabetes and more – this has been proven and to me, that is evidence enough.

  37. thedoc says:

    If only this were true- it is not. Raw food cannot- never has been shown in any study. Having “faith” is not enough. So lets see the documented evidence- not the anecdotes. I wish it were true- it just isn’t.

  38. James says:

    Dr. Simpson,

    So do you believe there is absolutely no connection between diet and any types of cancer incidence?

    For instance, Dr. Greger has lots of video’s citing studies regarding plants based diets vs. animal protein diets and breast cancer.
    http://nutritionfacts.org/index.php?s=breast+cancer

    or do you think that its not the animal protein in the diet that is associated with higher risk of cancer but the lack of good nutrients in fruit and veg? or something else?

    Dr. Fuhrman’s book, “Disease Proof Your Child” says that high nutrition foods in the first ten years are very important to preventing cancer later in life. What do you think of that?

    In your view, is there anything lacking in a Plant Based Whole Foods diet (other than b12) that would be alleviated by eating meat?

    Are you just arguing that there is no scientific health reason to eliminate delicious meat from the diet?
    What about environmental arguments? Pollution from animal farming?

    Do you think all PCRM doctors are just shills for the ‘animal rights’ movement or just scientifically on the wrong track?

    Thanks, James

  39. thedoc says:

    I am not a conspiracy type – so I don’t think anyone is a shill for anything – although they could be.
    There is no evidence, based on good peer-reviewed studies that a plant based diet will provide longer life. This is a big topic, meaning, if there are clear differences we should see them in some studies- and we don’t. Let me give you an example: smoking and lung cancer – you can look at the statistics and it jumps out at you- those who smoke have a relative risk of 20 of developing lung cancer. A relative risk of 1 means no difference, a negative RR means an inverse correlation. The plant based people have no RR greater than two in any study – and in studies where there is some difference shown – they have been horribly flawed.

    Environmental arguments and pollution – think of this: the eco-system requires animals as well as plants. Most of the ecologic statistics that vegetarians use are flawed, and far from normal. But if you don’t use animals to get nitrogen and phosphorus into the soil you get to mine it inorganically – remember the fertilizer plant that blew up in Texas — that is where you get them from.

    Protein is broken down into its amino acids- and there is no evidence that your body can tell if an amino acid comes from a plant or an animal.

    If you want to eat a plant based diet – do it carefully to avoid deficiencies, but if you are doing it because it will do great things for health – no evidence for that at all.

    In terms of Fuhrman’s book – never read it, but there is no evidence in the literature that nutrition in the first ten years prevents cancer. Think of how long it would take to study that — decades – and no one has done that study. He is making it up.

    In terms of breast cancer – obesity is associated with it, there is some genetics associated with it – but it is a stretch to blame it on animals. Wouldn’t you think if that were the case than every carnivore – like cats, dogs would be getting breast cancer? Why don’t they?

    Lots of junk out there – especially when it comes to plant based diets. Nothing wrong with it- but it is not a cure for cancer, or a prevention of one. It just isn’t that simple.

  40. chad says:

    I think you have missed the point on the China study and following a whole foods plants based diet. Just like anything else in life there are no guarantees. Following a vegan diet will significantly reduce your chances of getting cancer, but there will always be those that do everything right and still get cancer or another disease. Its all about putting the odds in your favor by eating right, exercising, doing regular medical checkups, getting the proper amount of sleep, managing stress etc. You would not say announce on the news that seat belts and air bags are useless because you know someone that died in a car accident that had an airbag and was using their seat belt. We all know that seat belts and air bags greatly improve your odds of not dying in an accident. The same goes for following a vegan diet, it improves our odds of being healthy for a long time but does not guarantee anything. There is not one medical procedure or drug that has the ability to guarantee any result. Medicine is never about absolutes, only about probabilities. Once this is clear, then a true discussion can be had about the effectiveness of diet and lifestyle factors.

  41. Marissa says:

    When are people going to GET that there are different TYPES of cancer. And just because Jobs diet didn’t CURE him doesn’t mean meat and dairy do not cause some forms of cancer and a host of other forms of illness. EVERYONE knows this yet there are STILL those who simply will not accept it. Stop arguing about it already and suck it up. Jobs learned in 2003 that he had an extremely rare form of this cancer, an islet-cell neuroendocrine tumor. AThe cancer was detected during an abdominal scan in October 2003, 2,000 to 3,000 people in the U.S. are diagnosed every year with neuroendocrine tumors, autopsies find the disease in hundreds more people who were apparently not harmed by this very slow growing cancer.which In Oct 2003 he happened to run into his urologist and she asked him to get a CAT scan. It had been 5 years. The scan showed a shadow on his pancreas.” By the time a tumor is large enough to be seen on a CAT scan it has grown to a size of at least 2 mm . The shadow seen was at least one (cm). This mass contains 1 bill cells and has been growing on adv for 10 years. Death usually occurs when the size of individual tumors reaches ten centimeters (4 inches). Pancreatic neuro-endocrine (islet cell) tumors, the kind that Jobs had, fit this pattern of growth.

    The history of the growth of Jobs’cancer can be determined by mathematical calculations. The interval between his diagnosis at age 48 and his death at age 56 was approximately 8 years (October 2003 and October 5, 2011). From the dates it can be determined that the tumor doubled every 10 mos. Tumors of most organs double in size every 3 to 9 months. His was a very slow growing tumor which could have spread during the 9 months that Jobs was using alternative therapies.
    Jobs’ cancer began and metastasized when he was a young man according to the cat scans.
    Many sources think his job, working around radiation since a young age contributed. Christina Applegate developed cancer at a young age because of genetics. NO amount of vegetables were going to stop it. It doesn’t mean, however that many cancers are NOT CAUSED by diet , meat , dairy. Some are, some are not. Not every cancer is black and white. There are different causes, like it or not.

  42. thedoc says:

    Sorry- I know there are different types of cancer. We did learn that in medical school. And many neuro-endocrine cancers, like the kind Jobs had, are resectable and able to be cured with cancer. The mathematical calculations you do are nice but the fact remains that the cancer is not simply a steady, linear growth of cells. Cancer is a play between the ability to get nutrients, the ability to grow in an environment surrounded by cells – and in Job’s case he had partial removal and also a suppression of his immune system with the agents used to keep his transplanted liver. Plus, neuroendocrine tumors are very slow growing, until they are not. It is not a linear growth phase – never is.

    When you say “many sources think…” I don’t know what many sources are – he didn’t work around radiation – no where is that in his biography. If you have a source you should cite it. Jobs was a vegetarian/vegan – and no amount of vegetables will stop any cancer- none.

    Yes, there are different causes of cancer- you simply have to show me one caused by meat or by dairy, or one that is prevented by vegetables.

  43. mhikl says:

    Good doctor, isn’t there something about epigenetic modification of such disease mentioned above. I may be getting the ‘slang’ wrong.
    Also, have you ever heard of the following story, “which was first reported by Dr. Bruno Klopfer in 1957. It concerns a man with a fulminating cancer of the lymph nodes who convinced his doctor to treat him with a drug called Krebiozen; the man had a miraculous recovery with disappearance of his many large tumours.” Then he had a relapse when reading in the newspaper that Krebiozen was disproved as a cancer treatment, However, his doctor was intrigued by his recover and then quick response to the distressing news. He called the man in telling him that he had a purified form of the drug (sneaky lier) and after a number of injections, the tumours again began to dissipate. When the patient again heard news that the drug was useless against cancer, the tumours returned with a vengeance and two weeks later he was dead.
    This is from John Sarno, Healing Back Pain: The Mind-Body Connexion.
    I cannot thank Dr Sarno enough for the pain he has helped me overcome since around 2000. Just this month, upon editing an ePub copy for a friend, I came upon ‘eczema’ as having a TMS (Tension Myositis/Myoneural Syndrome) or MBC (Mind Body Connexion) and had an Eureka moment. I’d forgotten this part of his book. I swear that within ten minutes talking to “my little guy” my legs went from purple and cold to red and very warm. It took sixteen days for all symptoms of eczema to disappear. My legs and arms are free of scabs, oozing and that terrible itch. Eczema had reared its ugly head only three years ago. I now know how to handle this “incurable” disease. I doubt if my physician or the two specialists I was sent to would believe it. Eczema is, as stated, ‘incurable’.

  44. mhikl says:

    Doc, we must always be on guard against believing that what we believe is best for everyone. My experience is that vegetarians are some of the most exuberant, closed minded postulates when it comes to their choice of lifestyle. The box is close, the mind made up and when cancer does strike a vegetarian, they look for loopholes to cover their theories: it must have been the milk, the cheese, the eggs, that monthly piece of salmon, the chocolate cravings. The number of celebrities that have died certainly stick out but so do the numbers from our community which is no stranger to the vegan mind and mouth. Campbell is just one of many vegan/vegetarian liars that ignore the data and distort the truth because of what they believe so fervently, so unquestioningly.

    I am ketogenic raw Paleo who twice a day eats moderate portions of elk, deer, bovine, salmon and occasional chicken curry; enough green and coloured low starch vegetables that grow above ground and berries to keep me satisfied; high animal fat and almond oil helps stem the rush to the refrigerator. Although my stats– Triglycerides (0.9 mmo/l, 80mg/dl), TS Cholesterol (3.8mmol/l, 147mg/dl) and very low LDL are pretty good for 63, I do not espouse my way for everyone, even though I feel the best and healthiest in my life. My bro-in law has to watch his meat and fat intake or his specs fly off the scale, though he hates the fat as much as I do sugar and high carb tubers, corn and grains/legumes. And milk? I believe the stuff from the market is originally meant for the bovine baby. I also fast once a week and three days with each change of season and I reduce my calories in the winter season like most carnivore beasties. There seems to be some good info coming out on fasting to rejuvenate the body and slow cell division. Sadly, governments now do little research having turned that responsibility over to the foxes (big pharma) in charge of the hen house (us). And there certainly is little coin for them in a healthy nation.
    As always, good reads from your site.

  45. mhikl says:

    Josh, because I eat most of my meat and fish raw I add iodine to my marinate and all my raw animal products are frozen for two weeks or more and this does help agains certain pathogens. I also wash my vegetables in structured water (Clayton Nolte) and iodine. I make my own Lugol’s Iodine. I ingest enough iodine, Xylitol and Vitamin C powered that my body is or at least should be able to handle this problem. I do not get colds, can’t remember the last flue I had and do not take medications of any kind and have entered the early stage of terminal elder-hood. I have been doing this for going on five years now. It may be that fasting helps. There is no way to really know if certain food practices aid in health. We have lost past knowledge and there is no profit in health so it won’t be studied in our lifetime.

  46. Claire says:

    Dr Simpson, I respect your critical approach to veganism and understand that for some people it is a faith rather than a science. That’s not to say i’m against it – I’ve been pro-vegan for many years. My father died suddenly of a heart attack despite avoiding saturated fat all his life, whilst heavy smoking friends and relatives are still with us (thank God) and still eating their burgers and chips.

    What I want to ask you though is this. Science is science and this means that the results are often contradictory and confusing. Faith, on the other hand can make things seem very simple. Whilst I understand that we can’t have complete certainty and faith, what would you advocate as a healthy diet? We all want to do the best we can, we cannot wait for science on the issue of health. We need to make choices. What might those be? Are you saying vegans die earlier? Are you saying the vegan diet is unhealthy?

    After my dad’s death I decided to go on a strict plant based diet. I had a cholesterol check and total cholesterol was 3. I was told it was very low. About 6 months later a benign lesion formed in my breast (at first they thought it was cancer until it was removed and biopsied, etc). In my twenties (i’m 43 now) i’d been a strict vegan with lots of soya products. I have hypothyroidism, since age 30. I wondered if my previous diet or my low cholesterol had caused the lesion – or my thyroid medication.

    On the issue of heart disease I haven’t a clue what to eat anymore.

    I guess what I’m saying is humans need an approach to follow while they wait for more certain facts to emerge. I’m worried about following veganism now because i’ve heard that low cholesterol causes cancer, worried about eating meat, so i stick with fish, worried about carbs…..Do you have suggestions for health or any particular warnings ie are you warning against veganism. I’m listening and keeping an open mind – just don’t know what the hell to eat. Thanks

  47. thedoc says:

    What to eat?
    Does what we eat really affect our health, and how much?
    I don’t have a clue.
    I eat a lot of fish, but love lamb, love grain fed beef.
    I don’t like soy unless it is isoflavone free.
    I think we need balance in our diet: most meat eaters need more fruits and vegetables and more vegetarians could use a touch of meat or fish.

  48. Sabine says:

    With all due respect Dr. Simpson, it appears to me that you mix apples with oranges, and with a topic such as cancer and diet, you really need every detail to be accurate and factual if you want to make a point. For example, you casually mix vegetarians with vegans. The mice used in Campbell’s studies where either fed soy protein, or milk protein. This makes it fairly important to clearly distinguish between vegetarians and vegans. Not only this, Campbell makes it very clear that “vegan” does not equal disease proof in humans. He promotes a plant based diet – not a vegan diet, and he acknowledges that humans are much more complex organism than mice. Finally, it is well established today that eating less meat reduces your risks for heart disease, cancer, diabetes and many other illnesses, and many thousands of studies are supporting this. And you claim the opposite? Based on what studies? Where does it say that more meat equals less cancer?

    For someone without 50 + years of bio medical research on nutrition you certainly don’t appear credible to me, and I truly question your motives.

  49. Dr Simpson says:

    Mice in Campbell’s study — all milk protein, no soy protein.
    Campbell encouraged a woman to not have appropriate medical therapy for the breast cancer gene and instead have a “plant strong diet”- which, if he had a medical license such a license would have been revoked.
    When you say “it is well established” – you simply are incorrect – and remind me of people who said “bleeding” “Carter’s Liver Pills” and other nonsense were at one time “well-established.”
    My motives are simple: science, where it takes me- and will not resort to “cherry picking” poor data to fall into a preconceived notion of someone who has not demonstrated the least bit of facility with the literature

  50. sandra says:

    Hello friends, I’m from Austria I want to tell the whole world about the good deeds DR.EKUMABOR did for me, I was diagnosed of a cancer disease (liver cancer), I was told by my family doctor, that I have only 8 months to live on planet earth, I was so depressed, I was thinking about my family, I don’t want to leave them behind, I will not surely die of this cancer that was my prayer, I was told by a friend of mine that, he have heard of DR.EKUMABOR curing HIV/AIDS in that case he can also cure your cancer disease, I never believe in spell, I collected his email from him, then I contacted him via email, he told me not to bother myself, that everything will be alright, I believed him, due to the way he said it. He asked me to purchase some items, which I did, he casted the spell and tell me that am free from the bondage, he also asked me to go for checkup, the CANCER disappeared from my body totally, I am forever in debt to him, I owe you a lot Doctor. If you have any deadly disease like HIV/AIDS, ALL TYPES OF CANCER, GONORRHEA, SYPHILIS, and ANEMIA any disease you can think off.

  51. Dr Simpson says:

    Two things: (a) People are willing to try anything – and in this case some sort of witch doctor and (b) confirmation bias is the hardest bias to overcome

  52. Jonas Kilikevicius says:

    Jobs was vegan the doctors towards the end of his life convinced him to add fish to his diet, thats what killed him. The vegan diet was keeping him alive.

  53. Dr. Terry Simpson says:

    ah yes- it is that deadly meat that led to his demise, and if only he had stayed true he would not have died. Sadly- biology is not that simple. Being vegetarian will not keep you from cancer – as much as you want to believe it

  54. Brad Evanochko says:

    Bingo! This article is so true! Vegetarians live an average of 56 years! Red meat is not the killer everyone says it is, quite opposite! Its VERY healthy for you!

  55. Elisa Jans says:

    This is a bunch of bullshit. There is a HUGE difference between vegetarianism and veganism, since milk has multiple growth factors, allergenes and pus and casein which is a well-known cancerpromoter. Also, there is a big difference between being vegan since you were 10 years old and since you were 40 years old. Btw, Jobs still ate fish. It’s like saying, omg he STILL got lung cancer even when he stopped smoking, smoking is good! When one has been smoking for thirty years and then stops.

  56. Dr. Terry Simpson says:

    And those “growth factors” are completely gone when they hit the acid of the stomach – they are broken down and by the end of the first foot of the small bowel are nothing more than amino acids that the body absorbs. And in terms of vegetarian vs veganism – yes- a bit of a difference – and Jobs ate fish;sadly he didn’t until the end of his life- because people who eat fish have the longest lifespans of anyone on this planet.

  57. Alan Campbell says:

    I do believe that a vegetarian / vegan diet will prolong most peoples lives, help maintain a healthy weight and make for a more enjoyable life. However, I do understand that genes play a role in ones chances of acquiring certain diseases such as cancer, heart disease and diabetes, etc. I also believe that, in those, who have a genetic predisposition to acquiring certain diseases, a vegetarian / vegan diet would ONLY be beneficial and in NO way detrimental to them; There are many examples.

  58. Alan Campbell says:

    I’m 64 already and have been a vegan since I was 24. Does that mean that I have been dead for 8 years?

  59. Dr. Terry Simpson says:

    Clearly not- but you are just 64. My dad is 90 – and quite a meat eater – should he be dead? Oh- and when he had his heart attack at 55 he switched from a vegetable diet to more of an omnivore diet- no heart surgery. Anecdotes- they mean nothing. Confirmation bias means nothing either.

  60. Dr. Terry Simpson says:

    Examples or anecdotes? WHO lifespan – those who live the longest are fish eaters – not vegans. Vegans don’t live as long as vegetarians. Just the statistics. As a weight loss surgeon I have more than a few vegetarians and vegans in my practice (which means they are morbidly obese). When you say a vegan or vegetarian diet would be ok for those who have a predisposition to certain genetic diseases – you better have some new scientific references to pull out- because there is no data showing such – but always willing to learn.

  61. Aileen says:

    Except it’s not veganism that cures cancer, it’s RAW vegan. Processed foods are just as bad. You can be vegetarian or vegan and all you eat is bread and pasta, that DOES NOT cure cancer.
    Also vegetarians eat dairy products and eggs, which contain animal protein so it’s not the same as being vegan. only RAW VEGAN cures.

  62. Lita says:

    Terry I think you need to go back to school or try something other than medicine. Maybe cooking? You are so far behind the science. There is now irrefutable evidence that animal protein plays a significant role in promotion of cancer. Please see Dr Michael Greger’s site nutritionfacts.org. You are really doing your patients a disservice that borders malpractice. Get educated. You are spending too much time in the kitchen and not enough reading the science.

  63. Dr. Terry Simpson says:

    Human lifespan longer than before. WHO showing vegans don’t live that long. Sorry – Dr. Greger’s site is a view, not supported by good facts. Happy to go where the science takes me- and since animal protein is broken down into amino acids by the first foot of small bowel, and so is vegetable protein – I really don’t think the body has any idea where the amino acid came from. Science- yes, science- real papers – real statistics, not a view point.

  64. Jonathan Livingston-Seagull Va says:

    So casein is the same as all animal protein; well, that also is some impressive pile of crap….note that Campbell’s rats who ate 5% protein didn’t get cancer, and no one’s diet even comes close to 5% casein…. hmmm bull you say?

  65. Jonathan Livingston-Seagull Va says:

    Some people fare better on a vegan diet, as some people can smoke and never get cancer

  66. Dr. Terry Simpson says:

    Humans are not rats, and humans who are infected with a fungus that predisposes to cancer and fed high amounts of certain proteins might or might not react the same way. I do like cream in my coffee

  67. Dr. Terry Simpson says:

    Humans are flexitarian – we can live in a wide range of climates, eat a wide range of foods, and adapt to those. In Peru there was little animal protein, so those who survived well on a vegetarian diet did so. In Alaska there is little in the way of vegetables above the Arctic Circle, so those who survived did well eating walrus meat. I do prefer green beans over seal oil, but maybe if I had a good seal oil recipe…

  68. Beth Aaron says:

    this doctor considers our food choices from a self serving, human centric perspective. There are SO many other aspects of animal agribusiness that must be considered. First and foremost, bringing 64 BILLION sentient lives into the world, forced impregnation of female animals ( animal “husbandry”)to take their babies for fattening and slaughter, is a grotesque violation of motherhood and the sanctity of life. Growing feed to fatten these animals which uses trillions of gallons of water, polluting it as well with agriculture run off and the thousands of fecal filled lakes called waste lagoons, a huge public health threat, is not considered. Transporting millions of animals a day, in hauling trucks, in frigid weather, extreme heat, NO requirements for food or water, many of them injured, all of them terrified, is ghastly and unconscionable. Betraying children’s innate love and kinship with animals should be a huge factor as well. NO child would choose to eat animals if they knew it caused their friends so much agony and trauma… And what about viral pandemic threats from mutating viruses from animals to humans like Avian Flu, Swine Flu, and other zoonatic public health threats? Sorry, this video stinks of speciesism and is shallow and self serving.

  69. Dr. Terry Simpson says:

    vegans have opted out- not opted into choices. Foodies have choices about where we buy the meat, fish, or poultry and thus we opt into that economy. If I buy my meat from farms where they are pasteur raised, then I support that. I don’t condone animal cruelty, but I support those who raise animals with care by supporting them with my dollars. Your last point about flu – sorry- we have had that for years, and the worst of them came from a time when there were not large animal feed lots. It is part of being on this planet. And- if you ever tried to raise vegetables without phosphate – it won’t happen. So you have two choices: strip mine phosphate or use the ecology of animals that die.

  70. Dr. Terry Simpson says:

    When we look at the increase of heart disease and cancer to isolate diet is rather impossible. It is not as simplistic. Take Seventh Day Adventists – they tend to be less obese, more physically active, do not drink alcohol. All of which are factors that reduce risk of disease – they are also middle class, not poor, and that reduces cancer risks as well as increases survivability.
    To think that animal protein is somehow magical ignores digestion. When protein is past the first foot of small bowel it has already broken down into the various amino acids and your body has no clue if the amino acid came from a plant or a cow.
    To cite someone’s single anecdote about what they ate and their cancer implies that diet can change the course of cancer – but cancer will come and go in many people and be independent of diet. Breast cancer in particular, can come and go over twenty plus years- regardless of diet. There is no “diet therapy” that has been shown to decrease cancer return in any large series – I wish it were true, but it is not.

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